Matt sent me a few articles today that he knew I would enjoy.
He knew that I would enjoy Desperate Feminist Wives, because this topic is truly dear to my heart and is something that I have been musing upon for a long time now. One reason that I feel a little sheepish admitting my musings is that it is such a cliché to be torn between feminist ideals and traditional wifey ideals.
I have always known this. Which is why it was a surprise to me that after blithely insisting to myself, my husband, and everyone I knew upon jumping straight into grad school and deliberately postponing motherhood, traditional wifey ideals would creep into my head before my desire for a professional career had ebbed.
Because, after all, that's such a cliché.
One of my favorite professors in college taught me about Alice Walker and other womanist writers. I can still picture him delivering his apt and completely sincere summary of womanism: "I don't want to break through the glass ceiling. I just want to get through the day."
I have so much to say on this topic.
I'll have to save it for another day.
Also, Matt knew that I would enjoy And the Oscar Goes to...Petticoats! Because this topic (fashion...er, costumes) is also dear to my heart.
Maybe not so dear as the first.
But pretty dear.
A penny for your own thoughts on this. Bonus pennies if you get the title reference.
21 comments:
I see where you're coming from, Katie. Some days I know for sure that I want to be a mom soon. Other days I really like what I'm studying and what I plan to do in my work, and I remind myself that I have lots of childbearing years left.
The thing is that I always planned to be a mom, but I thought career first, mom later. Now (like the past few months) it's more often that I want to be a mom first. I think that is very natural. I just find it fascinating that I did not ever think this before. I mean I never thought that I would start yearning to drop it all and "just" be a mother (please note the irony) even though I'm so young. So fascinating to me. I wonder if it's because I live in Utah. Or because I'm Mormon. Or because I'm...me.
Or maybe it's fear that now that I'm graduating I'll find out I can't find a job I like. haha.
Probably all of that.
no idea on the reference. who was the professor? your Vienna professor?
just curious.
No, Keith Lawrence. I loved that guy. I had...contemporary American lit from him; also 495, the senior thesis class or whatever it's called. That topic was 19th-century American women writers.
Take a class from him if you can. Such a good guy, and smart.
Incidentally, my term paper for the contemporary lit class was about James Baldwin. haha. I really don't remember how I made that relevant.
But "Sonny's Blues" became my all-time favorite short story after that class (besides "Bliss" by Katherine Mansfield. So good). I can especially relate to it these days, incidentally. I guess maybe we started with modern lit to kick off the other stuff.
Postmodern. Pardon me.
I LOVE You've Got Mail - despite the incorrect grammar of the title.
Anyway - I was thinking about feminism this morning at 1:30 while trying to go back to sleep after being up with Ella (she's sick).
I could write a whole post about this quandary, maybe I will, but I probably won't have time, so I will try to sum up.
the fatal flaw of feminism, in my mind is the obsession with "me" and the misunderstanding of equality. I feel feminism offers a million wonderful things to the human race, except for these two things, which I think is what ruins it for so many.
I also feel people have missed the boat with feminism. It allows you to choose - supposedly without judgement - what you want to do. If you want kids, great, if you don't, great too. But there is still the evil eye if you sya you want to be a mom when you grow up - and just a mom.
If you want to work and have kids no problem, in theory. But I think people haven't thought through thoroughly how hard it is to have kids and work full-time.
I have 4 kids and work part-time.
And it can be tricky. Take yesterday for example. I was supposed to work. Ara and Ella woke up sick. They wanted their mom - as they should. My babysitter could have come, but really, is that what you want your kids to remember? I was sick, so mom went to work? So I worked a bit during Annika's nap and then got up at 6 this morning to work a couple of hours before school started. So what do women do who work full time? It all depends on economics and that is a whole other issue.
I know that totally jumped around, but it's supposed to be a comment, not a treatise, I guess.
The older I get, the more underwhelmed I am by the whole feminist movement. I think in its time, it was a great idea. Idea being the operative word here. Now days, I feel women have far surpassed the equality issue. Not only are we equals to the men who once burdened us with their problems of dinner dates and a clean, quiet home, but we have now become what they want to be. We work, we love it. We bear children, and we love that too. We are able to fix lightbulbs and change the oil in our cars and have nights out with our girlfriends and all of these things are done with a little tongue in cheekiness by us. Like look what I can do, and I CAN do it all. I am beyond the idea of feminism in my life, and I am to womanism. Women rock.
I just read a book that expands on some of Bonnys thoughts on being home with her children when they are sick. It is called Home Alone America. It was a very interesting read. Gave me a lot to think about. For a long time we have been counseled by the prophets to be home with our children if we can. This book looks at the results of working parents and missing parents (through divorce, etc.)and how it affects the individual child and society.
This afternoon I noticed a thread on Times and Seasons, that oh-so-erudite blog that I can't help reading despite my lowliness, about this very topic.
One if my problems with Feminism is that some assume that it means that you CAN"T stay home and have children.
The otherissue is that men are often the dumping ground for women who wnat it all. Men can't want it all anymore. They work all day, and then often come home and work more. Helping with kids, etc (which they should be doing). I find that I am too quick to leave David too often with the kids. He understands that I want a break, but thenI have to remember, I'm a wife, too, not just a mother. David doesn't have bookgroup, Enrichment, Guys Night out, etc.
Does this make sense?
Thanks for your comments. They all make sense. I agree that the whole women-men issue is just complicated. I think the idea of womanism was refreshing--sort of a reality check: "Oh yeah, you want to work and have kids and do whatever you want to do? Well lots of us out here are doing it all because we have no choice."
I am grateful that I have lots of choices. And regardless whether anyone privately thinks I'm making the wrong ones, nobody has the gall to say it to me (so far). And I always have Matt's support too. Supportive men are a big part of successful feminism. Not only in partnerships, but also in the workplace and in society. "We're all in this together" as they say...and like Katie said regardless of gender differences (which do exist) we are also all people.
Pennies for Bonny for getting the title. That's one of my favorite scenes from YGM.
"152...the number of people who think he looks like Clark Gable."
"152 people...who think he looks like a Clark Bar."
If I didn't have to go do things I brought on myself because of my "choices," I would go watch that right now.
Maybe I will anyway!
dare i make a comment? the thread seems to be nearing its end, and i may not be the right gender, but i am around lots of females on a regular basis. and by some measures i am a feminist.
i should start by saying that katie's comment about never having the thought enter her mind that she wasn't 'equal' was comforting to me. as essential as gender roles are, it is as important for ara to be able to be the best mathematician in the third grade (or at CalTech for that matter.) i am surprised that the old ideas still surface from time to time, actually way more often than i thought they would. she happens to be the only girl in her math group. i hope that is just because the girls in her class happen to be not very good at math, and not because they have learned that girls aren't good at or don't like math.
one of the difficulties of our time is that none of us have enough time. that goes for women who work and have kids at the same time, but probably for the rest of us also to some degree. we all have to choose the highest and best use of our time, every day.
i am glad that women do have more choices now. bonny and phoebe make good points though. i think the choice to stay at home and have kids isn't really offered to lots of girls now, as they feel that they will be looked down on for taking the 'easy' way out if they choose motherhood.
one last thought. i deal with many strong women in business daily. many of them are in their 50's or 60's and probably did have a tough time making it in a man's world. the sad thing to me is that they have in many ways taken on many of the worst male qualities, and lost the best female ones. (refer to the Maxwell quote on this blog.)
balance.
Bruce, I am honored by your presence on my blog and am always interested in a man's perspective on women's issues. As long as it's not a mean perspective. haha. Which yours, of course, is not.
You bring up what was really sort of my point in posting this--or I guess the "epiphany," as I refer to it when I discuss it with Matt, that brought on these thoughts. A few months ago I realized, very much in epiphany fashion, that I had never, ever considered getting married and immediately having kids. Not only did I not have an open mind about it or refuse to discuss it; I just thought it was a non-issue. My plan was to go to school and work and THEN all that other stuff. I definitely left Matt out of the equation on that one, yet he was unfailingly supportive.
Not that I regret continuing school, because I don't. I have provided myself many more choices as far as a career than I would have had with only a B.A. in English and experience in lifeguarding. (Touche--lifeguarding can be a very rewarding career.) And I have learned a lot about leadership and conquering fear as I have had to take initiative and plow ahead in a lot of my tasks--many of which involved facing my fear of change and "putting myself out there"--on the way to completing this degree.
But I do regret my attitude about it, which I think is one negative side effect of feminism that many have touched on here: "just" getting married and being a mom was not one of my choices. Or so I thought.
I don't attribute this to anything that anyone neglected to teach me. I had the same Young Women lessons as anyone else. My parents started having kids fairly early on, and I knew that they valued their roles as parents, and that my mom working was more out of necessity than anything else.
Besides those lessons, they also taught me that I could do anything I wanted with my life and feel good about it as long as I was true to myself and my faith, and good and kind to those around me; and they taught me that I was blessed to have the educational resources I did, and to value education. I think I just focused more on this than I did on the YW lessons.
I'm still learning or re-learning a lot of things now that maybe I should have paid attention to earlier. I think that's it--I just wasn't paying attention. One-track mind.
By the way--
Karen, thanks for the book tip.
Keli, I absolutely love your attitude.
Phoebe, great point about men being the dumping ground, and I really need to remember that with Matt; even though I don't have kids yet, I do have lots of other responsibilities (again, my choices) and I often lean on him for support when I get overwhelmed. I need to remember to be here for him as well, both now and in the future, since he has just as much on his mind as I do on mine.
i'm so glad bruce's comment went through. last night it wasn't showing up, and i thought, all that work for nothing.
but i digress.
i think it's interesting that you brought up having a plan for your life and ending up
thinking maybe things should be different.
I think everyone has a plan that doesn't work how they planned it. But it usually ends up to be a pretty good life.
I'm mutating this almost dead thread even further but I wanted to add three things.
First, I agree with Bonny's point about planning. Planning doesn't usually work out, but life works out better when you plan. Elder Oaks gave an awesome talk a couple years back at a BYU devotional on this topic. He talked about how many plans he had set had completely changed. His example was when he was appointed to the Supreme Court of Utah. He and his wife sat down, talked, fasted, prayed, etc and basically laid out a plan for the rest of their lives. He would serve two 10 year appointments to the Court, retire, and then they would serve a mission together and enjoy their family. Well not too long after that he was called as an apostle, later his wife died, and their whole plan was "ruined." His point was that you plan of course, but must realize the Lord/life may take you somewhere else, but if you anchor your life and plans on sound principles then you will be carried through no matter what. That was just a long way to agree with Bonny. Here's the talk: http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=684&x=68&y=4
Second, this whole discussion is really hot right now. There are lots of interesting discussions going on about the roles of men and women and work and the home and the family. I've recently read much in the New York Times, Slate.com, and the Washington Post.
Third, on the "just a mother" topic. I remember a couple of years ago when I was in London with friend we sat by a couple of American ladies at a show. They were in their late 20s or early 30s. We got to talking with them and the one woman told us all about some exciting job she had; then her friend just kind of looked down and rubbed her slightly pregnant stomach and said "I'm just a mom." Anyway, it kind of made me sad and bothered me--her tone especially. So much so that even though I'm pretty soft spoken and non-confrontational I spoke my mind and told her how great it was to be a mom and how much I admired her and everything. I even think--in a non-condecending, joking way I told her I thought it was silly to ever say "just a mom" and that "I never wanted to hear that again!" Her reaction was very positive. Anyway, I don't know why I told that story, but thought it interesting.
Listen, don't you dare call my thread dead.
I had forgotten about that DHO talk. Very good. He's a perfect example of that. I think most people can look back at their lives at various points and say their plans had to change. But recognizing the need for a plan anyway, along with major flexibility, is maybe less common. It's hard when things don't work out the way you want. But what proves you is when you can be happy anyway.
"Anchor your life and plans on sound principles." I like that a lot. It doesn't change the fact that heartbreak and disappointment still come in the form of "curve balls." But if you've done that anchoring then maybe you're better prepared. It doesn't feel like that matters in times of hardship and change, but I think it's true.
i'm one that doesn't have much of a plan. i'm not sure that i ever have.
i met with a PR person a few weeks ago and she (no kids, no husband btw) asked me where i wanted to be five years from now. i was a bit embarrassed to have nothing to say.
i've always 'planned' to do the big things, mission, college, marriage, children, but have kind of taken the rest as it has come. i'm not advocating my method, just sharing it. i haven't really had a specific time when i would do the important things either (which may be why it has taken me a bit longer than some?)
i would likely benefit from a 'plan' for my profession. i'm not sure about the other stuff? i guess i'm through with most of it now anyway, so the plan may be a little late. at least i could get the timing right though, since i'd know when things happened.
all of that being said, my life is much better than my plan ever would have been. i definitely would have set my sights lower than my Father has, even with the curve balls.
Planning to do "the big things" is more than a lot of people can say! And I think it's a personality thing, too. I like planning everything, regardless of whether I think it will come to pass. I'm sort of a look-aheader, as well as a look-behinder. That can be very dangerous because it can contribute to denial about the present; but it can also be positive as it helps me see where I was and where I'm going, and how that all fits into what's happening Now.
And interesting point about the plan vs. the Plan.
I know I am jumping in about 10 days late here but I had to say that I enjoyed the topic and comments on this whole thread.
I can't help but say ditto to Bruce's last comment. I don't think that I have ever had a BIG plan for anything in life other than the ones he pointed out. Now I seem to be right back in with the same plan, only this time it's for my girls; college/job, marriage, children.(grandchildren) Then a mission or 2 for Shelly and me.
I guess I am not one who has to have it all lined out.
That's just me.
Just wanted to make it an uneven 25.
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